The Stupidity Of UKIP

UKIP’s former leader -Nigel Farage.

John Redwood’s statistical explanation on why Conservative euroscepticism is not in the ascendant in Parliament should be read by every UKIP voter.  In simple terms, the only non-europhile party in Parliament, the Conservatives, have only 306 seats when 320 would be needed for a majority.

UKIP standing at the last general election, achieved precisely nothing, other, that is, than making a coalition inevitable.  Luckily, by a miracle that coalition is not one between labour and Lib Dem, as the two parties combined were short of a majority, but only by a whisker.

Redwood –

There are just 306 Conservatives. The party fought the election on getting powers back from the EU and saying No to new transfers of power. There are 258 Labour and 57 Lib Dems, giving them a pro EU total of 315. There are also Nationalists who favour more EU power who could give the pro EU forces the majority.

If UKIP had supported the Conservatives, a move unthinkable to the fanatical mind closure that UKIP demands of its converts, there would now be no coalition.  There would be a Conservative government.  The eurosceptic wing of the party would be able to negotiate from strength, and the Party would be bound by its election promise to hold a referendum on transfer of powers and loss of sovereignty.

As it is, as Redwood points out, the europhiles hold a clear majority in Parliament, and pushing through a referendum on transfer of powers would not work.

If ever an organisation existed to destroy its own beliefs from being achieved, UKIP must be it.  Is there a phrase for such a political party.  A Ratner Party or something?  A Malcolm or a Pearson?

It must be the best decision for UKIP to withdraw from general elections in future, and fight within the Conservative Party.  It’s time to stop fantasising from the fringe, and get into the game on the right side for god’s sake.  Brussels bureaucrats must be chuckling away to themselves at the stupidity of UKIP.

Maybe this will knock some sense into them –

Daily Record August 3rd 2010 –

A blast of violent space weather is due to hit the Earth today following a massive explosion on the Sun.

It is likely to spark spectacular displays of the northern lights.

Scientists witnessed a huge flare above a giant sunspot the size of our planet, linked to an even larger eruption across the surface of the Sun.

By chance, the explosion faced directly towards Earth, sending a solar tsunami racing 93million miles across space.

Experts estimate the wave of supercharged gas will reach us today when it will buffet the natural magnetic shield protecting Earth.

The Tap Blog is a collective of like-minded researchers and writers who’ve joined forces to distribute information and voice opinions avoided by the world’s media.

16 Responses to “The Stupidity Of UKIP”

  1. Mike Spilligan says:

    All completely valid. Even the Green Party managed to get one seat.
    Nigel Farage had the best chance and came third – and (foolishly) I sent a smallish donation to his campaign, which he then wasted on a silly stunt.
    UKIP should now be looking at the whole of its raison d’etre; and PDQ because there may be another GE sooner than many think.

  2. Tap, you’re making the assumption that all UKIP supporters are in truth frustrated Tories. Not true, it gains its support from right across the political spectrum. Certainly I’m not a member of the Tory party and have never voted Tory in my life, and those that campaigned with me weren’t either. It’s slightly arrogant to argue that UKIP supporters should join a party that they never agreed with in the first place.

    I personally don’t subscribe to this ‘UKIP cost the Tories 20+ seats’ theory; I think Richard North is wrong here and that the theory is far too simplistic. But let’s suppose it is the case, then the only people that cost the Tories seats were the Tories themselves. The voters decided that UKIP was worth their vote more than the Tories. That means the they didn’t do enough to earn them. Why should UKIP disappear just to give the Tories an easier ride? Again there’s a certain arrogance of; ‘they’re your votes’. Why should the voters be deprived an opportunity of voting for a party just to appease the Tories? If you want Eurosceptic votes then offer Euroscepic policies. It’s pretty simple.

    Also, to keep repeating a phrase, in this case ‘Tories are the only Eurosceptics’, over and over again doesn’t make anything more true. Personally I judge politicians by deeds not words and the evidence is overwhelming – the Tories have willingly given more power to Brussels than any other party. They are not Eurosceptics and keep saying they are doesn’t alter the facts. They wear a Eurosceptic coat sure, to appease their supporters but underneath is Europhile substance, rather like New Labour wore a Tory coat but were still Old Labour underneath.

    In the short lifetime of the Coalition; the Tories have agreed with the Lisbon Treaty, voted for the European External Action Service, opted into the EIO, allowed the EU to control our banks and are encouraging Turkey to join quicker despite the obvious pressures on immigration this would cause. Not bad for a so-called Eurosceptic party. The only surprise for me is that it’s happened so quickly, not that it’s happened

    And when it comes to the crunch Tory Eurosceptics will always fall in line eventually. With Maastricht it was a choice between the party (Major’s last ditch vote of confidence) or principle, they all (but a couple) caved in very quickly. They will do so again. To assume any different is slightly naïve in my view.

    The only real stupidity occurs amongst Tory members who still believe that their party is Eurosceptic, despite 40 years of evidence proving otherwise.

  3. Costello says:

    the only non-europhile party in Parliament, the Conservatives

    A ridiculous description and completely in opposition to reality. The Conservatives are a euro-federalist party and being slightly less enthusiastic about the whole gig than some other parties (Labour, Lib Dems) does not make them in any way ‘non-europhile’.

  4. tapestry says:

    Frog, you see all Conservatives os of one treacherous ilk, while Ukip are subtly nuanced. A likely tale.

    Arrogant? What’s that got to do with the price of bread?

    Costello – same.

    Conservatives are a coalition with many parts. The party reaches deals internally as you now see between Con and Lib.

    The eurosceptic faction is a lot stronger than it was. The party had settled on a policy of reptriation of powers, and referendums on sovereignty loss prior to the election.

    But since the Lib Dem coalition superceded, courtesy of you guys, all eurosceptic bets are off.

    This outcome was achieved with as much assistance as UKIP was able to give.

  5. Frog, you see all Conservatives os of one treacherous ilk, while Ukip are subtly nuanced. A likely tale.

    I recognise that there are Conservative MPs with reservations about the EU but this is true with all parties. But as 1992 proved, the Tory eurosceptic principles only go so far. The Tories, as a party love the EU that’s my point. The party itself with the vast majority of its support is treacherous – that cannot be denied

    The party had settled on a policy of reptriation of powers, and referendums on sovereignty loss prior to the election.

    This was always a ruse. Tap you’re starting to sound delusional here. How could the Tories repatriate powers without the agreement of the other 26 member states? The Tories never answered that question. It was always nonsense.

    The truth is the Tories didn’t give up EU promises reluctantly under the coalition; they clearly couldn’t wait to give them up fast enough. Cameron had the perfect excuse to ‘bury the right’. And they capitulated without a whimper.

    To think that a Conservative Government with a healthy majority would act any different is a fallacy. The Tories have willingly given in without a fight and would under a clear majority as history has shown.

    I think it’s time to stop blaming other parties and look at the clear duplicitous deficiencies of your own.

  6. tapestry says:

    What would be interesting to hear from John Redwood as well as his number-crunching on Party MP totals, would be his assessment of numbers vis a vis the internal arithmetic as to europhile/sceptic within the Conservative Party.

    Obviously the sum is irrelevant inside a coalition with the Lib Dems. No matter if the Party was 100% eurosceptic, if there is a coalition with a europhile party, we will never know the situation.

    The stupid part is that UKIP’s effect is to make sure we never find out.

    Extrapolating the future from events that happened nearly twenty years ago, when europhiles dominated the upper echelons almost entirely, is not much help, Frog. But thanks for offering your thoughts.

    As I say, the game is here and now, not lost in the mists of Maastricht in 1992, where UKIP is sure of itself. Clarity of strategy is all I request.

  7. The stupid part is that UKIP’s effect is to make sure we never find out.

    Aside from ignoring my points in previous posts, if we accept the ‘UKIP Effect’ the stupid part is that the Tories didn’t persuade nearly 1 million voters to vote for them. Why is that then Tap? Are you saying we should just hand those votes to the Tories on a plate? Are you arguing against democracy? I think you are.

    As I say, the game is here and now, not lost in the mists of Maastricht in 1992,

    Of course the game is here and now, but my point regarding Maastricht is that the Tories have never expressed a policy that’s different since. Deeds not words. History proves the Tories capitulate so why should we continue to trust them?

    No matter if the Party was 100% eurosceptic, if there is a coalition with a europhile party, we will never know the situation.

    We do know; the Tories have willing not reluctantly capitulated.

    They had a choice – i.e. form a minority Government. They decided not to, went into bed with the Lib Dems and junked ‘right-wing’ polices faster than you could say, ‘The Tap’.

  8. Anonymous says:

    UKIP offered the Tories a deal way back in June 2009. The deal was that there would be no UKIP candidates in the 2010 General Election, if the Conservative Party would agree to hold a referendum on British membership of the EU, in the life of the next Parliament. The Tories were too arrogant to even respond to the offer.

    They only have themselves to blame for their current predicament and I do not, for a minute, believe that their actions in Government in relation to the EU would be significantly different to the actions of the current coalition.

    Redwood can parrot all he wants about nasty UKIP but the reality remains that we are the only serious political Party that puts Britain first and is prepared to state openly that we should leave the EU. The Tories are a shameful failure in this regard and it is a very great pity that so many people still seem to think they will change and become an anti-EU party. How many decades have to pass before the realisation dawns ….?

    I stopped voting for them in the mid-90s because of their complete failure to have a sensible and comprehensible policy on the EU. They still don’t have one.

  9. tapestry says:

    if all Tories are bad, then all Tories are bad.

    your logic is impeccable, Frog.

    If only we had known about Von Stauffenberg in WW2, we could have got rid of Hitler and saved millions of lives. But ‘all Germans were bad.

  10. Wey hey, the Tap abides by Godwin’s law.

    You still ignore the majority of my (inconvenient) points in my comments I notice.

  11. tapestry says:

    Anonymous 12.37 pm. I am so sure that you are right. Please can you give me a quick reminder of the text of this offer made by Lord Pearson to the Conservatives. I would like to see it again. In fact no one ever saw it as it never happened.

    Ukidology, I’m afraid. But it fooled you.

  12. tapestry says:

    Frog, I’m not your employee.

  13. opsimath says:

    I could have voted for Lady sodding Gaga and the f*cking ZaNuLabour placeman would still have got in – don’t tell me my UKIP vote was wasted – it made me feel good for a couple of minutes.

  14. tapestry says:

    …enjoy the Liberal Democrats, opsimath, the offspring of your moment of pleasure.

  15. Tapestry,

    UKIP stood apart in a number of places for both Labour and Tory Eurosceptics who were prepared to risk their climb up the greasy pole on a matter of principle. In the cases of those who got elected, I am thinking of Reckless, Davies, Carswell etc we can see that they have kept their side of the bargain. And all credit to them.
    However those who were not prepared to risk their careers were never going to be supported by UKIP. I think therefore your argument fails. As to the offer made to the Tories, it was made by Farage when he was leader and repeated by Pearson when he was leader. In both cases the overtures were rebuffed without even the courtesy of a formal response.
    So yes you are right there are indeed decent Tories.
    Now the ‘realistic Eurosceptics’ as some describe themselves are responsible for example for the opting in (no we didn’t have to, and No the Lib Dems would not have gone to the line over it, it could should have been driven by their civil liberties agenda) to the European Investigation Order by your Government rather puts a lie to all claims about not handing over power to Brussels.
    So what can I an elector do. Vote for people who say that they will bring powers home, or those that I know would, if they ever had the chance?
    To me realistic euroscepticism is a misnomer. It is just a slower death. The world was never changed by realism. It was changed by those who ignored the siren calls of the middle ground.
    It was changed by people like Horne Tooke, and Jack Wilkes who stood up for Liberty at the risk to their own.
    You accuse us UKIPers of stupidity. I would prefer to be stupid in the cause of Liberty, than acquiescent and intelligent in its demise.

  16. tapestry says:

    The coalition with the Lib Dems is the reason that repatriation of powers and referendums on loss of sovereignty have been suspended. They were Tory election manifesto promises, publicly declared, but inevitably now lost by the formation of then coalition.

    I lay the blame for the coalition at UKIP’s door. A mere sprinkling of votes would have won a Conservative majority. The EIO is directly attributable to UKIP’s electoral effect.

    If you prefer losing the war because it is gratifying your emotions to fight wrong battles, that is exactly why I suggest the strategy is stupid.

    All UKIP do by taking part in general elections at all is ensure that coalition government becomes more likely, and a Conservative victory made further out of reach.

    All you are making is a protest which doesn’t achieve anything positive, but it does serious damage to the cause that we all, writing here, believe in.

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.