How Far Can The EU Push The Irish and The British?

There are few writers on European affairs as honest and open as Ralf Grahn the Finnish legal expert on matters EU. On his blog Granhlaw,he asks how the Irish can take part in a democratic future for Europe, if they refuse to ratify the Lisbon Treaty. My reply to him is that Europe does not have a democratic future, as the wishes of its people are being ignored.

The worry is that as the EU presses on without democratic accountability, they will push free people too far, and find a more determined reaction to preserve liberty, independence and democracy than they obviously expect, judging by Sarkozy’s less guarded statements. I wrote to those who wish to propagate Europe’s non-democratic future as follows –

Your aims are not shared by the people of Europe. What other options do you offer in your list of desirable futures?

Can you only imagine one future, as I suspect? Or would you permit the people of Europe to choose not to share in the single outcome that you desire?

If you will not permit them to freely choose, you have to refrain from calling the future for Europe that you advocate here and elsewhere, ‘democratic’.

Britain was deceived. We were promised a referendum by Gordon Brown. He signed Lisbon and deposited the Treaty on the sly at Rome this week without a referendum being held. He is a political criminal, and traitor to his countrymen, 85% of whom wanted a referendum, and believed that they were going to be granted one.

The ratification is democratically invalid, and will not be regarded as complete by me and millions of others like me, who are now living in a non-democratic tyranny.

The re-obtaining of our democracy and our freedom justifies the taking of any action necessary including violent means, as we had to do to win the war.

Democracy cannot be crushed by theft and deception, any more than it can be crushed by warfare and militarism. It will not die.

Those who try to steal it, however, do face an uncertain future. They have abandoned the standards of civilization. They have forsaken the norms of democratic behaviour, whereby people will not resort to violence to pursue their political objectives. By lying and deceiving they are now endangering lives.

The Irish have demonstrated a willingness to murder to maintain their freedom and their dignity in their struggles with Britain in the past.

What is to say that the same outcome will not now result with the EU, which is not willing to listen, and wishes to treat Irish people like dumb second class citizens, too stupid to understand the superiority of their EU masters.

I suspect it is the EU masters who are too dumb to understand the ferocity and the determination of free peoples to remain free. They would be advised to learn respect for democracy, for people who vote or who wish to vote, before claiming democratic credibility for themselves and their arrogant increasingly dangerous one track minds.


The EU Relationship survey from Global Vision taken in May 2008 shows a striking similarity in the responses from the supporters of all the major parties. This question was posed to those surveyed –

Question 4 (to all): If a future British Government renegotiated Britain’s relationship with the EU to a new one based on trade and cooperation, and then called a referendum on this new relationship, how would you vote in the referendum?

A total of 64%, made up of
71% of Conservatives
71% of Labour
71% of Lib Dems
and 55% of others

agreed with the following statement –

I would vote in favour of the new relationship

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8 Responses to “How Far Can The EU Push The Irish and The British?”

  1. Grahnlaw says:


    I replied to your comment with a comment of my own.

    To boil it down: You should be happy with the prospect of a democratic EU (as I see it), since the negative electorates would be ‘liberated’ from participating.

  2. kerdasi amaq says:

    As far as the European Union is concerned, I want OUT!

    We have got as much as we are going to get out of Europe: it is now time to LEAVE!

  3. tapestry says:

    The Irish and British electorates do not share your view of their inferiority.

    They see themselves as free peoples who are entitled to be heard and listened to. Ignore that and believe yourself superior if you really think you are. You merely reinforce the growing resentment by expressing such notions.

    A freeborn Irishman is not going to sit there while EUrocrats tell him he is dumb, and therefore cannot understand why his freedom and democratic rights must be removed.

    Judging by past form, he will react very strongly against such notions.

    The British are more placid by and large, but once riled are unlikely to let the matter of their liberty drop until it is resolved. That would mean withdrawal by both countries from the hopelessly incapable EU, and the return of participatory democracy.

  4. AnIrishman says:

    The European project will only go so far before it is stopped in its tracks. Incremental integration will keep the peace only for now but the day will come when the EU will go too far. People will rise up and strike at it with full force. It will come tumbling down like a house of cards.

    My people did not fight in ditch and street for a nation ruled by twisted foreigners with the ability to legislate on every aspect of our lives from our turf cutting policy to the setting of our interest rates.

    Long live the day when the EU flag burns and the project lies in tatters at our feet.

  5. anenglishman says:

    Irishman – your para 2: my people did likewise. They really are treading on extremely thin ice…

  6. rz says:

    Every single pro-Europe voice clearly states that every country has the right to withdraw from the project. This point has been made over and over again. Especially by Ralf Grahn. However other nations (maybe 26 nations without Ireland) might still move on and form a Union on their own.

    If you want Britain to withdraw you have to fix that with your own Government, as it has the power to withdraw.

  7. BrianSJ says:

    I would like to be part of some form of European organization, but I cannot see that the EU could change to the point where it would work for Britain. The CAP is a disaster, as is the SFP. The rest is pettifogging bureaucracy. EEA fine (I think), EU – out.

  8. kerdasi amaq says:

    an even tinier percentage of the european population is pushing European integration. Add up the total number of parliamentarians in the 27 EU nations, I’m pretty sure it comes to less than 800,000!

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